11 replies to this topic

[Caveman]

On 3AW radio today after the Richmond v North Melbourne game there was talk from some of the commentators about drawn/tied games being outlawed. The idea being for the game to have a result- where one team wins and the other team loses be it through playing extra time, first to score etc etc when the total scores at the end are the same.

I cannot agree- a DRAWN GAME or in FNWB speak a TIED GAME if the scores are identical (as they were today 12.13.85 so this afternoon was a TIED GAME) should remain. All this talk about the numbness of two points. Well two points is better than none- yes it isn't as good as four points- but two is preferable to zilch.

I remember as a just turned 7 year old after Round 22 1976- Carlton v Footscray at Princes Park- feeling jubilant at the TIED result, because it meant we made the finals- one less behind to us would have meant that Melbourne would have claimed the fifth position in the final (then) five. Yet Bernie Quinlan averted a goal from Carlton's Tasmanian recruit Tony Pickett (he touched it as it was going through) so we finshed two points higher than Melbourne and we made the finals.

11 wins 10 defeats 1 draw/tie = 46

was better than Melbourne's

11 wins, 11 defeats 0 draw/tie = 44



DRAWN/ TIED matches in the home and away season- LONG MAY THEIR POSSIBILTY OF OCCURING CONTINUE

[Conway]

I like the draw also. They were talking about this on Footy Classified last night, it was pretty funny. Only Craih Hutchinson thought it should go, the other 3 liked it.

Why get rid of it, makes things more interesting! I'd like to see it in finals also. Make them re-play the game if there is a draw! Wasn't there a grand final in the 70's that was re-played due to a draw?

[Caveman]

The 1977 Grand Final finshed as a draw- Collingwood 10.16.70 -North Melbourne 9.22.76, so they replayed it the following Saturday afternoon. The 1948 Grand Final was also a draw- Essendon 7.27.69 to Melbourne's 10.9.69. Melbourne won the replay quite comfortably- I heard a story that Essendon were so confident of winning that replay that they had organised an Essendon Premiers 1948 cake. Wonder what it tasted like?

There have been others as well- A few select ones include -

Carlton and Richmond tied the 1972 Second Semi Final, scores were also level at the end of the Geelong v Carlton Preliminary Final of 1962. The replay of that Geelong v Carlton game nearly required another game- Carlton winning it narrowly.

As it stands now a draw/tie in a final requires extra time. This has happened twice since Colligwood and West Coast were all square after a final in 1990. It was decided that finals need to be decided on the day- I understand this- you have a backlog when there is a draw- so I support the idea of extra time for draws/ties in finals. Should there be a replay or extra time for a Grand Final?- Of that I am undecided- I can see the aguments for both viewpoints.

At present I support the status quo- an "ordinary" final just has to be decided on the day- however for an ordinary Home and away match in the season proper- a draw/tie should definitely remain. One of the arguments used for getting rid of draws in the home and away season is the quote

"Just look at them- they look devastated- you would reckon they had just lost"

Well thats how it should be- you don't want people jubilant about 'not winning'

Two points - not as good as four points but better than no points.

Another reason for keeping draws/ties is that they don't happen all that often- so when they do- so be it.

I remember back to 1977- we lost at home to Hawthorn. I wasn't at that game we were listening on the car radio whilst driving away to the Grampians for a family holiday. We watched the replay that night in a caravan park in Halls Gap- a black and white tv it was with colour tv being just two years in. The caravan we stayed at didn't have colour tv at that time. Anyhow in this round there were two draws (or in FNWB speak- one draw and one tie)

Richmond v Essendon at Waverley was a draw, St Kilda and South Melbourne at Moorabbin played a tie. A 15 year old boy made his debut that day at Waverley, Timothy Watson from Dimboola. Stan Alves played his first game for North Melbourne after moving from Melbourne.

That was St Kilda's second tie for the season as they has tied with Footscray at the Western Oval a few weeks earlier. The score in our game was 17.14.116 each. I think the St Kilda v South Melbourne Moorabbin game was 14.14.98- Richmond was 14.15.99 and Essendon was 15.9.99- if my memory doesn't let me down.

So anyhow draws are fine with me- your not good enough to win it, but your not bad enough to lose it. Two points for you and two points for your opponents- a fair compromise I think.

[Amelia Jane]

I am getting sick of media types such as Craig Hutchison and Steve Quartermain complaining about the draw. I have been to several drawn games and I have not left the game feeling hollow and confused. The draw never bothered anyone before and I don't understand why it upsets some media people now. There is a result. Both teams get 2 points each which can come in very handy. Also, often you will hear the quote of "these teams are both so even and have played so well that this game deserves a draw" Also, Craig Hutchison seems to think he can belittle anyone who does not agree with him. When Caroline Wilson and Gary Lyon expressed that they did not want a penalty shoot out and just to keep the draw, he angrily accused them of living in the seventies and eighties. Penalty shoot-outs and extra time would be another useless rule change the majority of football lovers would not like. Keep the draw !

[Caveman]

Merged the original topic from what I put up last year in the General footy board.

Anyway Amelia Jane, I am sure you would be happy to know that I certainly haven't changed my opinion about draws/ties in the home and away season and why I remain a committed draw retentionist.

[DMcG]

I am getting sick of media types such as Craig Hutchison

That's all I needed to read to know I agreed with you...

[hilly84f1]

That's all I needed to read to know I agreed with you...

TOTALLY AGREE

KEEP the draw in Home and away matches

KEEP the extra time (5mins each way in Non-Grand Finals)

But Definitely - REPLAY any DRAWN GRAND FINALS, there would be just 2 much riding on 10 mins to do extra time
and it would definitely be a money-raiser for the AFL and give us something to do and talk about footy for at least another week!

[SonOfScray]

The draw should remain for the HOME and AWAY matches. No doubt. I too am sick of the debate re: scrap the draw driven by the likes of Hutchy and these other imbeciles that want to change the game for the sake of changes sake.

The system in finals is fine by me and IMO should be extended to the Grand Final. However, I have never seen a grand final replay played out, heard the reactions of fans and seen the impact on the game so it is a tough one to comment on - I may be swayed given the opportunity. I just don't think footy suits replays, or finals series etc like in BBall and Hockey. Too much can go wrong week to week, players can get injured in the game, pull up sore and not be available the next week.

The fair response is to decide it on the day. No debacles during the week for reports, injuries etc. There can only be one.

[Caveman]

The 1948 Grand Final was a draw, 29 years later in 1977 was the next Grand Final draw. Then 29 years after 1977 we almost had another draw in 2006, but Steak and Kidney just couldn't get one more behind to complete what would have been a unique sequence.

Anyway for Grand Finals do I want a replay or extra time then penalties or whatever they would have?

Well I am not sure, as I can see the arguments for both viewpoints. A whole Premiership decided in extra time or a maybe a kick off? Maybe that would be too much, yet is another week too much hassle, especially in these times of the National Competition that every single Victorian was so longing for to hurry up and arrive before season 1987 came along

So do Fremantle fly back here again next week should they be the first to make a drawn/tied Grand Final?

So I won't discuss Grand Final level scores any further, in the next 10 minutes.

However the current situation for drawn finals IS CORRECT. It would have been better if this applied in 1946,1962, 1972 and 1990, rather than the replays which threw the whole series in those years out of whack.

Yet we do not need extra time for ordinary home and away season games. Because a drawn result does NOT INCONVENIENCE any future games unlike what it does during the finals. Threre shouldn't need to be any further debate on it for that reason alone. Yet I will give three reasons just below this paragraph

In our television age, what would happen if it is near the end of the season and some bloke is on 99 goals and it is round 21 or round 22, like Buddy Franklin in 2008?

Now the same station is covering the match (Game A) which is about to finish and the next match (Game will start at the conclusion of the Game A. Anyhow Game A concludes as a draw. So they go to extra time- it is still tied so what should the AFL policy be? Do they keep playing until there is a result, or a penalty kick like situation? Well they have to get a result, so do we get the result eventually and whilst we are still watching this, the bloke on 99 in GAME B kicks his 100th goal, but we don't see it as we are watching GAME A.

The second point- what if there is a draw at Kardinia Park Geelong around the same time as now- late June on or nearly on the shortest day of the year (June 22)? They have no lights there as good as the ones at the Cricket Ground and Docklands. Some champion player gets injured in the semi dark because we are playing extra time?

The last point for now-

'It is such a hollow feeling'

says one of the team who played in the draw.

Well yes it probably is- but THE OTHER TEAM ALSO HAVE A HOLLOW FEELING-BECAUSE THEY LIKE YOU ARE NOT CELEBRATING JUST LIKE YOUR NOT!!!

Would you feel better if they were jumping up and down running over to their supporters all excited? Because they have just beaten you in extra time or penalties?



So here is the compromise - at the end of the game- for arguments sake it is the Eastern Hawks v the Northern Blues and it ends in a draw (or tie in FNWB Speak should it be 15.15.105 each, rather than 14.19.105 and 13.21.105)

over the public address- we hear YANKEE DOODLE DANDY, then straight after it finishes we hear 'LILY OF LAGUNA'- then back to Yankee Doodle Dandy then Lily of Laguna again.

So we do hear a theme song in fact we hear both.

I reckon that is not a bad compromise.

[DMcG]

How bout they play something upbeat to ease that 'hollow' feeling? I suggest the theme from Diff'rent Strokes. Always cheers me up.

[Caveman]

How bout they play something upbeat to ease that 'hollow' feeling? I suggest the theme from Diff'rent Strokes. Always cheers me up.

Considering the ill fortune that fell upon and then the ultimate ending for Gary Coleman after Different Strokes concluded, I can sometimes see the argument that children shouldn't be on television regularly. I am not saying that I agree with that viewpoint, but when looking upon how so many child stars throughout television history endure hard times when they grow up, maybe it is best not to make them the number one act.

Anyhow back to the song after drawn games- well if not the theme tune for both competing clubs- then how about that song from the 60's that goes something like -

"Just the two of us- we will always be together"

[Caveman]

The Thursday night game between the Eastern Tigers and the Northern Blues was nearly a tie. Carlton trailed by 6 points near the end, then there was one more goal for the game. 

 

That goal went to Richmond to make the margin 12 points, however just say Carlton scored it and the match finished as a tie- the final score would have been 13.14.92 each.

 

Now for those advocating playing extra time to prevent a draw/tie, how would you justify this should extra time have been played last Thursday night at the MCG? Thursday was a working day (and also a school day.) Friday (the day after) was also a working and school day. The game would have finished towards 11pm, then what happens if they are still level at the end of extra time (which is more likely this could occur) so do we have more extra time or some form of a "penalty shootout?"

 

People have been at work or school on Thursday, then they go to the football that evening, then it is back to work/school the next day.

 

WE MUST RETAIN THE DRAW/TIE RESULT for games played during the Home and Away season.