33 replies to this topic

[SonOfScray]

I'm a big believer in the role of fans in the game, that their involvement is what propels the game from a sporting contest to the huge spectacle it is. The emotional investment in the game, in the Club brings value to what happens on the field and it is why you see fan forums and sites like this.

I wrote an article for a soccer fanzine a few years ago based around this idea and dug up this quote in my reading;
“According to Brian Eno, carnival is the key to real culture. When spectators become part of the proceedings themselves, then the event takes on an authenticity it didn’t previously have. Carnival is good when it leaves the people with the feeling that life in all its bizarre manifestations is unbeatably lovely and touching and funny and worthwhile.” – Danny Boyle

With this in mind I was hoping find somewhere to discuss the issue with other Bulldogs people, what are your stories of support for the Dogs, what are some of the issues that arise when you become a part of proceedings? I see footage from 20+ years ago and things in the outer seemed more colourful, more authentic. Cheersquads had home made flags and banners, people owned their support. Now you see very little aspects of this supporter culture, however you do see sponsors on flags, banners etc. Check this clip and have a look at the Nth Melbourne cheersquad and the crowd for Essendon:



I did have some old late 80s, 90s photos of the Footscray crowd, but would like to see if anyone has anything interesting in this regard. I myself have made a few flags/banners etc over the years for example:



Crowds seem to chant less than I remember as a kid, it has been a while since the whole 'scray crowd has got up even for a FOOTSCRAY CLAP CLAP CLAP. The cry for "Ball" is about the only real consistent feature of vocal support.

A few questions -

Are we seeing less support on gameday? Or is it just different?
If it is different.... why?
How do you go about your support?

[Caveman]

Well Son of Scray, very good stuff what you added there.

Firstly to that video- I remember that tune it came out for the 1985 Finals Series which we were in and I always like that song. Thank goodness for youtube, what a great modern thing it is.

Now to the atmosphere- to start with everyone is holding up their camera phone all the time to capture things, or they are using that phone of their's to talk to others, so the spontaneous noise is possibly not as dynamic as in the past. Years ago if you saw someone with something next to their ear at the footy/cricket etc it was their tranny not a mobile phone. Nowadays the word tranny has a different meaning as well, so for the young ones- it means a transistor radio which i like what an ipod is except that you could only listen to the radio and not the latest records as you can now.

The competition has changed dramatically for the supporter from the mid 1970's when I started following Footscray. There is no more South Melbourne and Fitzroy, they are not here as they were then in 1981 and before. Now only two teams have not left their 'home' to play elsewhere- Melbourne and Geelong- well you can add Richmond as they went to the MCG for 1965. All others have moved to the MCG or the Docklands. So realistically Geelong is the only club with a proper home ground advantage- Melbourne share their ground with just about everyone else.

I could talk about all clubs that left their home for wherever else, but I will just stick with Footscray for the time being.

The Docklands is not a bad place, it has its good points, but IT WILL NEVER BE A HOME GROUND for us in the sense that the Western Oval was. The Western Oval had its drawbacks, but it was a decided home ground- with not just an advantage to us, but also it meant something. It was a heritage, walking through the local streets, visiting the local pubs and shops before/after the game. There was a true sense of belonging- it was your second home after where you sleep at night- that is your home, the Footscray Football Ground was your next home. Since we stopped playing games there at the end of 1996,(and the one off West Coast game in 1997) it is no coincidence that two of the famous pubs near the ground- The Rising Sun and The Albert have gone out of business and are no longer there. Ditto for the petrol station in Barkly Street. Footscray the suburb has suffered for the team not being there- but we can't do anything about it now- the new training facilities- 'The Miracle of the West' that Smorgon frequently talks about, prevent the club playing home games at Footscray at AFL Level, ever again. The gymnasium etc is built in a position that means we can't ever redevelop the ground to hold 35,000 people. Smorgon was totally opposed to ever improving the ground in a way that made it acceptableto go back and play the likes of Fremantle or West Coast at the Whitten Oval, unlike Frank Costa at Geelong. Costa's main platform was to keep Geelong playing at Kardinia Park- not to move them elsewhere. So we are stuck with home games at the Docklands, interstate and the odd one at the MCG (though not this season- 3 away games only in 2010)

Anyway back to the atmosphere- the Western Oval certainly had it- plenty of it too. It was still a passionate noisy place in 1996, though it was more louder in the 1970's. The John Gent Stand was a wonderful place- the floor was made of wood- the crowd would (when in need) all stamp their feet and make an almighty noise- the players could definitely hear it. So what would happen is that instead of this 'bulldogs clap clap clap' sound that about 30 people at the most ever do in unison at the Docklands- the John Gent Stand would do it differently. It would be -Footscray, stomp stomp stomp, Footscray stomp stomp stomp and some would use their hands as well as their feet. So it would be Footscray stomp, clap (together), stomp, clap(together), stomp, clap(together) etc. Most people would join in from the JGS, the Whitten Stand noise was different as their floor was concrete and not wood, but they would still vociferously get behind the team.

For the 1980 season the club put wooden seating in front of the right hand side of the John Gent Stand and so there was less standing room there. This made the capacity of the ground smaller, but also the atmosphere wasn't as loud. Progressively more seats were added in front of the John Gent Stand and also for the 1984 season the press facilities were upgraded. They had to improve the amenities for the media- no arguments about that- but it unfortunately cut into more seats and area of the JGS. As years progressed the JGS became a shell of its former volcanic self, to the point where it was a glorified press box and glassed in entertainment box for the corporates rather than the sea of Footscray passion that it had been since the 1920's. One reason for this was no fault of the football club- it was what happened in May 1985 12,000 miles away in England- the Bradford fire disaster. That made wooden stands a thing of the past.

There is a disconnection with the fans. Take the Footscray Past Players functions. Their room was always packed at the Western Oval on game days, yet now how many past players go to them at the Docklands and MCG? Hardly any. Then look at the flags- all the flags that the fans wave after a goal, seem to be those small insipid ones with the 'yawning cat' logo on them. What happened to the big tri-coloured French or Dutch national flags that everyone had- just look at the 1985 First Semi Final and Preliminary Finals videos to see what I am on about. There appears to be no originality any more- we just buy what Lily Allan sings about with this 'mass consumption' like stuff.

So all in all the Docklands is just our home ground as it is heaps of other teams home ground. With cheer squads, it seems thay they are there to advertise the clubs sponsor. Now that isn't a recent inovation- Geelong cheer squad always held up FORD flags back in the 1980's- but the game is so commercialised now. Those cheer squads in that clip looked colourful, now they nearly an anachronism.

Anyway rant over- but one positive- the club shop at 417 Barkly Street Footscray West 3012. It is a good place- they do stock a good variety, including nostalgic Footscray clothing. More power to them.

[SonOfScray]

Territory is major influence - the move out of WO, a bustling, swell of Bulldog faithful into the neatly segregated Docklands has killed a lot of atmosphere. When you were on your own turf, with most likely your own people, you were one part of a bigger voice. You could go a bit more nuts without anyone singling you out. In your designated seat, watched by CCTV and fully visible to most others in their individual seat you lose that collective vibe. There is an interesting analysis of institutions which I think applies to football support. It compares the set up of a place like Bedlam, dungeon type place where the mad were left to cause havoc amongst themselves and the progression to physical structures not unlike Bentham's panopticon. (http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Panopticon). I'd argue that some of the concepts do apply in our current supporting context.

I hate that I was too young to enjoy walking up Gordon St to the game, stopping at a local for a beer with some mates etc. It is a real struggle to generate that side of going to the football within my peer group but we are slowly building it up. Finals time we met at Fed Sq. hung flags and banners over fences around the beer garden, sang a few songs, told stories about the "old" days, glorified the likes of Zeno and Trent Bartlett and generally let all and sundry know that some Saltwater lads were around.

One issue that really irks me is the vigour with which security, ground staff seek to stamp out any displays of individuality. Have been threatened with eviction from the ground and confiscation of banners in the past because they are hanging of the fence on L3. I understand that sponsors pay good money, and there is a financial reality to the issue but the reaction is ludicrous. On occasions we have moved to parts of the ground where no signage exists and encountered the same issues - the displays of support are actively discouraged and unfortunately not many Dogs fans really care.

Some clubs have "grog squads" which funnily enough I dislike the concept of. I remember we had some guys at Optus Oval "Barkly St Boys" who used to get around in bWo bomber jackets and carried a Barkly St sign but you just don't see anything quite like that for the Dogs. I hope we can bring a bit of that back.

[PSP18]

Some good posts above. That's why I signed up to this forum - to get involved in more discussion such as this and perhaps to build some more blocks for improved support.

Big Footy is great for on field issues, even nostalgia, but when it comes to talking about support and active support I feel as if the other posters aren't on my wave length.

Woof is great to have as a Bulldog-only site but disregarded me because I didn't post enough!

Hopefully on here there are like-minded fans who can share ideas and thoughts about creating and enhancing an authentic matchday routine and tradition. The last few years have seen small shoots of progress with some home made banners (mainly thanks to SonOfScray) and t-shirts popping up.

Sorry if this is side-tracking a little, but I'd be interested to know what everyone else thinks about the above points, the cheer squad and the possibility of an (independent) alternative...

At the moment it's about baby steps.

[PSP18]

Sorry to double post but here is a banner I whipped up (whilst 1/3 pissed and listening to the footy) in my garage the night before the Geelong final last year. It made two appearances: at the Geelong game and Brisbane one, six days later. Spray painted banners really shouldn't have a long shelf life (generally no more than about two games), and I was in the Southern Stand standing area at the St Kilda game so couldn't really display it anyway.



Despite it's crudeness and lack of artistic credibility, the banner added colour and importantly was home made (in the west!). The banner also refers to the club from a historical perspective.

I'd like to see more efforts like this, and also to know other people's thoughts.

--

On Sunday I sat in the MCC Members with my Richmond-supporting father and sister. I proudly displayed a mate's Chris Grant silhouette over the Level 2 fence and thought that wouldn't be an issue. I was wrong. After 25 minutes of the first quarter, a green-skivvied MCG employee came to remove the banner. I was only seven rows behind it, so noticed and raced to the fence. I questioned the removal and was told that fence banners are banned, and security would be called on me if I didn't accept it. I was also threatened with the banner being confiscated.

What made the episode even more perplexing was that there was no advertising signage being covered - the fence was a plain beige one. I pointed this out and, predictably, the employee didn't respond directly.

This is the kind of issue which will have to be overcome if "active" support is to be strengthend. To overcome this, standards (two-stick banners), balloons and flags could be used more commonly.

Some examples of what can be achieved with some inspiration, time, money, organisation and effort:



Melbourne Victory vs Adelaide United, 2007 Grand Final



AC Milan, Italy



Borussia Dortmund, Germany

Click at the following link to sample literally tens of thousands more pictures - http://z6.invisionfr...hp?showforum=37

[Caveman]

Some good posts above. That's why I signed up to this forum - to get involved in more discussion such as this and perhaps to build some more blocks for improved support.

Big Footy is great for on field issues, even nostalgia, but when it comes to talking about support and active support I feel as if the other posters aren't on my wave length.

Woof is great to have as a Bulldog-only site but disregarded me because I didn't post enough!

Hopefully on here there are like-minded fans who can share ideas and thoughts about creating and enhancing an authentic matchday routine and tradition. The last few years have seen small shoots of progress with some home made banners (mainly thanks to SonOfScray) and t-shirts popping up.

Sorry if this is side-tracking a little, but I'd be interested to know what everyone else thinks about the above points, the cheer squad and the possibility of an (independent) alternative...

At the moment it's about baby steps.

Firstly welcome aboard PSP 18- good start to your time here.


Years ago as in 1996 there was a 'rebel' cheersquad, they were possibly around in 1995, but 1996 was their main year.

They positioned themselves behind the goals at the Barkly Street end and they had big flags. They were an off shoot of the 'real' cheersquad, some disgruntled members of the official cheersquad broke away to form this group. Sadly I understand this 'rebel' cheersquad evidently dissolved sometime in 1997- the change of home venue from the Western Oval to Optus Oval made those less accepting of change, more likely to fade away into the background.

The massive upheaval that occurred from the end of season 1996 into the 1997 season should never be underestimated in how it affected the supporter base. Most young fans (as in those under 25) are not really aware of how different things are from those who remember 1996 and don't really understand how so many people older than them find change so difficult to accept. I am most definitely one of them (a change sceptic.) I could never tolerate playing 'home' games at Optus Oval, let alone changing the name. It didn't then (and still hasn't now) made me more passionate about the club.

I believe totally that "Western' fans are the quietest in the game. One of the reasons for this is that no one knows what to chant. The 'Bulldogs clap clap clap' sounds terrible- not just because it is so infantile, but as it never gains any momentum, it makes those who do it look out on their own- It surely would never inspire the players, compared with other clubs and their vocal support.

I will add some more in a few minutes, have to depart for 30 minutes or so- also I love that TIFO website- the Borussia Dortmund images are breathtaking.

[PSP18]

Good post Caveman, some interesting history covered there.

I only went to three games at the Western Oval in 1995-1996 so have no recollection of the rebel cheer squad. I was only 6-7 years old at the time anyway, so wouldn't be able to remember it even if I did have Footscray parents and was a regular.

I'm glad to see you confronting that we're the quietest fans around. I'd be more likely to try to convince myself that we are loud, that we are intimidating, that we are a 'big' club. Maybe as fans are all of that - some of us could be wrong. At certain times, such as the St Kilda prelim last year, Dogs fans really come out of their shells and make themselves heard - as a body of 35,000 that night we were immense. It just doesn't seem to happen often; week-to-week. This might be because of a defeatest mentality, because we're used to an inevitable fall, or for reasons pointed out by you above - that we've moved from our real home and haven't found our feet for over a decade now.

I'm interested to hear more about what it was like to go to Bulldogs games (home and even away) from, say, 1970-1995. My first Dogs game was Round 22 1995 (vs St Kilda) so don't know much about what it was like before then. I've seen SOME footage but that doesn't give an idea of what it was like to be there. Was the Western Oval genuinely loud compared to other ground's? Was it intimidating; atmospheric? What was it like for visiting fans and teams? And did Footscray take a large contingent to other grounds around Victoria? These aspects of footy culture are too often overlooked. I'd love to read some words about this.

Where do you sit/stand at "home" games Caveman?

[Caveman]

Firstly to the Banner image that you have draped over the fence at the MCG- I believe that is probably the banner I saw last Sunday evening- I picked it up (from the Ponsford Stand) what appeared to be a red, white and blue banner overhanging out of the MCC members. It 's great that you have on it -BULLDOG TENACITY.

I wonder how many fans understand what that is all about. Sadly I reckon it would be probably about 1% of 1% of the 'Western' supporter base. Yet power to you four blokes in that image for making it up, bringing it along, hanging it over the balcony and then recording/capturing it before they got you to take it down. The fact that you strategically placed it next to the ground logo image gives it more currency.

The St Kilda final was a powerful noise all night and when both teams scored goals the roar was probably equal in its intensity. Johnson's goal in that last quarter when he marked it and played on was ear shattering- the eruption of the sound, though there was no loud consistent chant that got going from our supporters. 'St Kilda clap clap clap' went on longer and had more participants than 'Bulldogs clap clap clap'

I won't say that this is why they won the game, but it was noticeable that more of their fans got involved in it that ours. There was probably a few more of them than us there that night, but not overwhelmingly. That is what we have always had over North, they just can't draw a large following the kangaroos, despite their commendable Premiership success in the last 35 years, whereas we do have a dormant following. Although it is not as large as it was in 1992 or 1985.

The 'defeatist attitude'-there would probably be merit in that. When your not used to success and especially in close finals (which we always lose ) the back of the mind tends to subconsciously make people fear it happening again- as it always does for some weird and unfathomable reason that is just so unexplainable.

As for where I watch home games from- I don't get to all of them due to working funny hours, but I usually sit up on the top level above the LIVEWIRE bar at the Doglands, although I am yet to find a 'home' there and so it depends who I am with on the day- I run with them. We don't play any home games at the MCG, but when we do, it will be the middle of the Ponsford in the public part, although again it depends who I go there with as I don't have reserved seats for either.

I did at the Whitten Oval in the last 5 years there- although I would always stand down below in front of the Whitten Stand or across to the right near the John Gent Stand. The yearly reserved seat tickets for the season that I had at the Whitten Oval, were basically a donation to the club- but I didn't mind that as my hard earned went directly to the Footscray Football club- whether I occupied those seats or not. However I am only a home game member now, my support for the club is in real terms financially diminished since 1996.

Just back to your banner over the balcony that wasn't covering any advertising- well as compared to those images from the TIFO ULTRAS website, we are poles apart from them........ but not through choice.

A wonderful website it is the TIFO- they are in the LINKS here- in the banners section. I haven't looked at it for a while, so you putting up the Borussia Dortmund image was a ripper. I wonder what the Eastern Tigers fans would make of the Borussia Dortmund images- if only they could copy them? We can copy Sampdoria and a few others I guess....... if we were allowed to as you 4 blokes unfortunately found out Sunday night The tigers would thus face the same rebuke!

[PSP18]

Just to clarify, Caveman.

The Bulldog Tenacity banner was used in the first two finals last year and wasn't removed. That was the crude garage job (although the meaning of the words is important; I got the inspiration from a page on FNWB for what it's worth). The banner is still at home with me.

The banner removed was a Chris Grant silhouette in the middle panel of a French flag.

Just to give people reading this a sneak peak (well, not really a peak!), I've spent a fair amount of money on materials and after some further hard work other displays will begin to appear at games. More on that another time.

--

You might not have noticed but I edited my previous post, to add the following:

I'm interested to hear more about what it was like to go to Bulldogs games (home and even away) from, say, 1970-1995. My first Dogs game was Round 22 1995 (vs St Kilda) so don't know much about what it was like before then. I've seen SOME footage but that doesn't give an idea of what it was like to be there. Was the Western Oval genuinely loud compared to other ground's? Was it intimidating; atmospheric? What was it like for visiting fans and teams? And did Footscray take a large contingent to other grounds around Victoria? These aspects of footy culture are too often overlooked. I'd love to read some words about this.

Any thoughts?

Another (perhaps more relevant) pic to inspire:

[SonOfScray]

I sat/stood in 4 different locations at WO between 1985 and 1996. I was very young, from infancy through to early highschool so do not entirely trust my own memories. However a few moments stick out in my mind quite clearly, Dougies testimonial, Darren Pritchards point to draw in the final seconds, Spud Frawley's 300th game, Galaxy break a point post? At one point in time I used to enjoy the reserves moreso than the 1sts because the noise was too frightening during the main game.

I stood for a brief time in the last days of WO just next the race in front of the EJ Stand, that was very much in the thick of some Bulldog faithful; but outside of the noise I can't remember this part of the ground being especially supportive in terms of chants andclapping etc. More banter and following the play. Still loud though, like a rowdy pub crowd perhaps.

My favourite part was on the fence in the pocket, scoreboard end, Dougie's wing. We sat in the same spot religiously for quite a while and it was pretty wild because you had the traveling fans on the terracing behind and the more boisterous Dogs fans just next door behind the goals, Opposition cheer squads would be a little bit off to your left. There was always a bit happening out there - you also had the advantage of seeing the main members area and all the colour etc that went with that. Kiosk was not far away for a half time cherry ripe and can of coke. Although you were doing well to get that treat, when the family brought along rolls, cordial, hot chocolate and half the pantry along in a fuji fridge bag.

We also had stints in front of the Gent stand, where I made a bit of a name for myself by abusing the MC when the ding, ding sing went up for an announcement as well as for standing up and giving it heaps with the FOOTSCRAY! FOOTSCRAY! etc. Did often receive easter eggs, birthday presents and high fives from some of the older fans that sat in the area. I think having some kid going bananas let them get into things and drop that embarrassment of standing out that can creep in as you get older. That was about the highlight of my time at WO.

We spent a year in the EJ Stand but I never really liked it in there, sight lines were horrid and I felt removed from what was happening.

OO days were quite good, the Heatly stand was where we had seats and we sat in a big family group. Most get right into their support and we dragged a few along for the ride. Cheersquad was in front and you had some lads on the terrace in between. Made for a great atmosphere. Was not home though - it was fairly convenient for us living in Flemington but something wasn't right.

Colonial days early on were terrific. We had reserve seats and there was another two families quite similar to ours who really got stuck in. One of the fathers would wave a few flags, try rev his kids up and the old WOOF WOOF WOOF" chant got a run, with the others usually getting some good response. I think we were quite loud at this point in time. Didn't last too long though, by the Rohde years there were more opposition fans than Dogs in our area.

L3 18 ES has been fun to date, quite a few familiar faces week in, week out. The guys do enjoy the angle that we take in good humour and get involved here and there. Its always tough with the banners etc because of the scrutiny it gets from authorities which can unsettle the family types but mostly there is a good community and support culture finding its feet again up there. I hate Docklands, ACG Security and Collo but there is an element of what is going on that makes it feel like home. Until we play Collingwood and they sell us out for their members.

[SonOfScray]

[Caveman]

That is what I saw Sunday evening, a tri-coloured flag with an image in the centre of it, now you have confirmed it- Chris Grant in the middle. From the Ponsford I could see what appeared to be a tricoloured flag. Thanks for letting me know- my eyes didn't deceive me!

Could I just be a bit pedantic and say that the French flag going from left to right is blue, white and red, rather than red, white and blue, but hey no one here will care about that will we?

Here is one proposition for you with the new designs. The Amsterdam flag with the red,white and black XXXXX on them. It is on the Ajax Amsterdam entries in the TIFO.

Would it be worth making one up similar to that except in red,white and blue?

[Caveman]

I'm interested to hear more about what it was like to go to Bulldogs games (home and even away) from, say, 1970-1995. My first Dogs game was Round 22 1995 (vs St Kilda) so don't know much about what it was like before then. I've seen SOME footage but that doesn't give an idea of what it was like to be there. Was the Western Oval genuinely loud compared to other ground's? Was it intimidating; atmospheric? What was it like for visiting fans and teams? And did Footscray take a large contingent to other grounds around Victoria? These aspects of footy culture are too often overlooked. I'd love to read some words about this.

Any thoughts?

I will start with that St Kilda game of 1995 in Round 22. Danny Frawley of St Kilda was retiring for them that afternoon and we had already secured a spot in the finals. It was the first game at the newly named Whitten Oval since Teddy died. We beat Melbourne on Saturday August 12th at the Western Oval. I was obviously there at the Western Oval for that game and I returned the next day to see Kelvin Templeton's record goal tally at the ground of 15 beaten by some bloke called Anthony who kicked 16. This Anthony bloke happily didn't do it against us, Fitzroy were his sacrificial victims. At three quarter time, nearly all of the Sydney supporters whom were positioned standing behind the goals at the Barkly Street end- took off for the Geelong Road end. It was unusual sight, hordes of people leaving where they were to walk to the other end. They all travelled on the outer side, underneath the E. J. Smith 'roof' (you couldn't refer to it as a stand!) so there was sod all people at the Barkly Street end goals in that last quarter. Anyhow Lockett got to 16 goals and during the week, Fitzroy President Dyson Hore- Lacy sacked former Footscray player Bernie Quinlan, who at the time was the Fitzroy coach. That was big news but then Teddy Whitten died on the Thursday night the 17th August, so this overtook the Bernie Quinlan sacking story. Next year in 1996 when Sydney played Fitzroy at the newly named Whitten Oval- the Sydney following did the same thing (following as an adjective instead of fans being the perfect description for this situation), trailing Lockett from the Barkly Street end to the Geelong Road end enmasse as they had the year before. I know that as I saw it myself, having two years in a row attended a Fitzroy v Sydney fixture- at the Westen Oval in 1995 and the Whitten Oval in 1996.

Well I digressed there but back to the point after Teddy died the name of the ground was changed by the then administration to honour Teddy- so what was Footscray v Melbourne at the Western Oval on Saturday 12th August 1995 was three weeks later Footscray v St Kilda at the Whitten Oval on Saturday 2nd September 1995. We had two away games in between - Fremantle in the west and Geelong at Geelong.

Ok finally to the actual St Kilda game- it was a joke- we appeared not to be too interested but nonetheless very keen to go through the motions in wait for the first final the next week. It was an appaling performance actually, but we were surely saving ourselves for the next week. So at quarter time of the next week on the Saturday night at the cricket ground- the first week of the finals our opponents had 10 goals on the scoreboard- we were 9 behind them and it didn't improve.

So lets get away from that game.

Was it loud?

Yes, although not always, especially in the latter years, like some occassions when we were playing the West Coast or Brisbane. What made the ground loud was the Grandstands(and the E.J.Smith roof) being able to bounce the noise around. Anyway the best ground for atmosphere, I would say from what I saw (and heard) was Moorabbin, that was the loudest ground and Kardinia Park the quietest. Yet I imagine that Kardinia Park will be different when this new Grandstand of theirs opens up this season- as it is replacing what was a glorified garden shed (the Geelong Past Players Stand) The reason that Moorabbin was loud and aggressive was that the Grandstand on the St Kilda members side went all away around the wing, so all the sound from the members side was bounced back. The noise didn't bounce around at Geelong from their members side. Certain stands could be loud- the Robert Heatley Stand at Princes Park was loud, as was the Tom Sherrin stand at Collingwood. The atmosphere was similar at both Windy Hill and the Lakeside Oval as both those two grounds had two Grandstands around their forward pockets at the same end. The Lakeside Oval was an atmospheric place- the South Melbourne fans all packed into the right hand (as we saw on tv) forward pocket in and in front of the two stands. The rest of the ground was open air, but I liked it and definitely miss the Lake Oval. What makes all these Grandstands and areas stand out from the rest of their grounds was that they were near the goals -and NOT on the wings. The Ryder Stand at Collingwood (it was on their members wing) was not as loud as the Sherrin Stand behind the right hand goals. The Ryder Stand wasn't an imposing structure ditto the Geelong grandstands (except the one behind the goals that they now call the Doug Wade Stand- it used to be the Reg Hickey Stand!

So back to Footscray- the John Gent and Ted Whitten Stands both went back a fair way and they both could hold a fair few people- though sadly the John Gent Stand became more and more a corporate structure as time progressed and its actual capacity diminished, which lessened its raw appeal. They had standing room in front of them (though this later changed for the JGS) which always improves noise. People are programmed to be louder when standing rather than when they are sitting.

I will write more in reply to this a bit later- may have to pull the pin for the night.

[SonOfScray]

I know a few fans who stand on the concourse at Docklands because they hate sitting at the footy. My preference is to stand at any sporting event however these days standing areas are really poor spots for viewing and tend to fill up with people more interested in the bar than the game.

The great thing about the Canberra games, while acknowledging that I'd prefer to play in Melbourne, is that it is like a step back in time. Standing on the hill, or the fence with an excellent view of the game. Add the "away day" vibe and some rowdy mates and it is a great day at the footy, very boisterous.

[Caveman]

I know a few fans who stand on the concourse at Docklands because they hate sitting at the footy. My preference is to stand at any sporting event however these days standing areas are really poor spots for viewing and tend to fill up with people more interested in the bar than the game.

The great thing about the Canberra games, while acknowledging that I'd prefer to play in Melbourne, is that it is like a step back in time. Standing on the hill, or the fence with an excellent view of the game. Add the "away day" vibe and some rowdy mates and it is a great day at the footy, very boisterous.

I have always overwhelmingly favoured standing to sitting at the football and I understand perfectly your point about matches in Canberra. Standing at the Docklands is too low to the ground, you miss alot of things when it is on the other side from ground level.

So I wouldn't mind going to a game there in Canberra actually- but it would have to be the situation where Sydney is the home team- I am just opposed to any home games being played out of Melbourne, so I don't consider going to them.

Agree again though with what you say about standing on a hill, to me it feels like you are going back in time when watching a game there.

[PSP18]

Can confirm that nine flags (three red, three white, three blue) are sewed and ready to go for Friday!

If you were interested, each piece of material is roughly 90cm x 110cm.

Keep an eye out for them up on Level 3!

[Caveman]

Well done to you blokes. I will certainly be looking out for this- can you put up an image of your nine blue, red and white flags on this Forum sometime soon(ish) after the match?- You can do it Saturday morning or Saturday afternoon, that would be fine- I certainly don't expect you to NOT go to the pub after the game so you can race home and hop on your computer .

[DMcG]

I've always had the idea that Footscray should have an International Day where fans are encouraged to bring a Red, White & Blue flag of another country.

I know I've said it on this board before but there's so many to choose from and it would look awesome.

USA, Britain, Holland, Luxembourg, Russia, Chile, Cuba, France, Costa Rica, Thailand, Taiwan, Australia, NZ, Cambodia, Croatia, Serbia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Paraguay, Dominican Republic, Iceland, Norway, North Korea, Laos, Philippines, Liberia, Myanmar, Panama.

Think that's all...

[SonOfScray]

Flags went up en masse () at the start and end of the game. Got the impression they looked good - had a bir of fun with it. We had a few knockers, but won them over.

[PSP18]

Flags worked well! Did other FNWB contributers notice them?

Level 3, Bay 18 is the place each week!