18 replies to this topic

[Caveman]

Now back live on Footscray Tube is 24 minutes of rare action from nearly 35 years ago.

Essendon v Footscray at Windy Hill back from Round 14 played on Saturday 7th July 1979

[Amelia Jane]

Thanks Caveman.  Fantastic footage. 

[Caveman]

Now the reverse fixture from that year, that had been played earlier in the season -

 

is back on the Footscray Games sub-chapter

 

1979: Footscray v Essendon from Round 3 Saturday 28th April 1979 at the Western Oval.

 

Stay tuned there could be as many as four extra games up on Footscray Games within a week.

[Rodc]

Hello Caveman.  Have you ever seen any footage of the '76 drawn game against Carlton at Princes Park?

[Caveman]

Yes Rodc I have from the old FOX footy Channel. Currently trying to get a photo of it up right now actually.

[Caveman]

 

This was the game Rodc- best photo I could get from it. I didn't go to the game but remember listening to it on radio at home and being so happy at the end when it meant that we were in the finals.

 

Hey Rodc would there be any chance if you get a few spare minutes at your leisure to give a bit of a description of that day?

It must have been a ripper of a match especially for the neutrals- it was a fantastic last Saturday that Round 22 of 1976, it had everything. 

[Rodc]

My memories are a bit vague, but I remember it being a beautiful sunny day for footy.  It was one of the rare occasions I went to the footy on my own, which is a strange experience in itself.  I watched the game from underneath that old press box that was on the wing at Princes park in those days.  Although I was a neutral supporter, I was hoping for a Footscray win given that they had had some barren years and Carlton was the glamour team of the '70's.  I have memories of Bernie Quinlan taking some great one grab marks and of Alan Stoneham playing a dashing sort of game.  To refresh my memory I checked out AFL Stats.  I was sort of half right because Quinlan only took five marks and had only 11 possessions, (but kicked 3 goals), while Stoneham had a real day out with 31 possessions - 19 kicks and 12 handballs.  Don't forget these were the days when there was much more contested footy and no collecting 20 uncontested possessions. I wonder how Footscray supporters rated Stoneham?  Was he a bit maligned because he burst onto the scene as a 16 year old and given Teddy's number?  

As a neutral supporter I remember thinking that Footscray seemed to be in control most of the day - except towards the end obviously - but i can imagine Footscray supporters being on the edge of their seats all day given what was at stake.

My memory fails me but wasn't there a dramatic end to the game?  Did Carlton have a shot and miss or Footscray missed a shot that would have sealed the game?  I just can't recall but maybe someone remembers what happened.  

You must have been beside yourself listening to it at home Caveman? 

[Caveman]

Good stuff Rodc. Footscray were 3 points up late in the game and Carlton had the last 3 scoring shots for the match- all behinds. The last one was when the Tasmanian Tony Pickett had a shot going through that fortunately for us was touched on the line by Bernie Quinlan.

Stoneham was the heart throb of that era. The Dalhaus of his day though he had long blonde hair of course. The week before he kicked a goal after the siren at Waverley to beat Fitzroy by one point.

That old press box wing at Princes Park was a great spot to watch footy from. They got rid of it during the third year of a relatively new President at Carlton in the third year of his Presidency so as to build a Grandstand. This was in 1986 that the John Elliott Stand was built. This would be the equivalent of Geelong building their next Grandstand at Kardinia Park and calling it the Colin Carter Stand.

[Rodc]

The other peculiar thing I remember about a suburban ground, Caveman was how spectators used to stand on the roof of a toilet block in about the forward pocket at the grandstand end at Glenferrie Oval.  It seemed that every conceivable space had too be used - but what a great atmosphere it must have been there when it was full.  If you ever see any old footage of a game at Glenferrie take particular notice and you'll see the toilet block with people on top.  I know this is a Footscray board and I'm getting off the topic a bit, but as you point out what a pity some of these old grounds couldn't be utilised a lot more.  I guess people are now getting a small taste of it with the Footscray VFL side playing some games at Whitten Oval.

 

By the way, do you prefer Whitten Oval or Western Oval? 

[Caveman]

I never liked the name Western Oval for both words. Oval sounds too local 5th grade amateurish, Park makes the ground sound better, a stadium even more so. As for the Western, that is too generic, too bland, too 'wishy washy' 

 

However as unimaginative it sounded- it wasn't Robinson Crusoe- I would say it was the worst name but not by the length of the Flemington straight. Here below in this mini table is how I would rate them from worst to best. Only those in Category 6 below would I consider impressive. Category 5 is reasonable.

 

(1) Western Oval

(2) Victoria Park & Princes Park,

(3) Windy Hill,

(4) Junction Oval, Lakeside Oval

(5) Corio Oval, Punt Road, Brunswick Street and Arden Street 

(6) Moorabbin, Kardinia Park and Glenferrie Oval

 

 Kardinia Park I consider the best because it is unique and instantly linked to Geelong Football Club. Glenferrie Oval is the same but I gave Kardinia Park and slightly higher ranking because it is called park and not oval. Places named with a road or street are higher up because Arden Street and Brunswick Street are a location, the Lakeside or Junction could be anywhere, as is Windy Hill- could be in Wellington, Hobart, Melton or Chicago. Princes Park and Victoria Park mean nothing and have others- one was also racecourse in South Australia. One of Adelaide's main racecourses having the name of another  Australian state in it? Or was it and the ground in Abbotsford named after Kaiser Wilhelm's grandmother?

 

Yet I didn't agree with the ground being altered to Whitten Oval. I said at the time that Whitten Park, is better than Whitten Oval for the above reasons. If our ground had an interesting, unique or romantic name, I might have kicked up a fuss about it- but as Western is so meaningless, it didn't bother me that they did it.. well not sufficiently enough to really complain that much

 

Though the other 'bones of contention' about this were that the decision to change the name of the ground was done as quickly and impersonally just like they were flicking a switch. It was done overnight by a very select few, no consultation with anyone, just let the world know that we are changing the name of the ground. Having done this so easily, just move forward 14 months and another name change occurred and again like the ground, there was no consultation with anyone. It was just done and this time by a brand new board. So in less than 3 years, any Footscray ratepayer would have to contend with this -

 

October 1994: City of Footscray becomes City of Maribyrnong 

August 1995: Western Oval becomes the Whitten Oval

October 1996: Footscray Football Club is to be known as Western Bulldogs 

 

Back with the name of the ground, we had it as this 

 

1995 Footscray v Melbourne:  Saturday 12th August (the Saturday before Teddy died) at Western Oval

 

then three weeks later

 

1995 Footscray v St Kilda: Round 22 Saturday 2nd September (the last game of the Home and Away season) at Whitten Oval

 

1996 Footscray v Fitzroy, Hawthorn, Adelaide, West Coast, Brisbane Bears, Fremantle all as Whitten Oval 

 

 as well as Fitzroy v the teams they played (the game on Sunday August 4th was Fitzroy v Footscray) all as Whitten Oval

 

1997 Western v West Coast (the last HOME game there for 1997 and of course the last game ever played there) at Whitten Oval 

 

So all in all we played 9 games with it being known as the Whitten Oval, eight home matches and one as the away team to Fitzroy (who were playing there in 1994,1995 and 1996)

 

One last point- those that changed the name of the ground from Western Oval to Whitten Oval- should then have changed the name of the Whitten Stand. Your no longer a General if promoted to a Field Marshal.

It should have been renamed after another former player eg the Charlie Sutton Stand, Jack Collins Stand, Arthur Olliver Stand, Norm Ware Stand, Alby Morrison Stand, Allan Hopkins Stand, Vernon Banbury Stand, Johnny Craddock Stand, William 'Ching' Harris Stand or after a MAGNIFICENT official e.g David Mitchell Stand, Otto Grobbecker Stand, George Sayer Stand, John Cuming Stand. Whatever but not advertising. (debate sponsors and advertising somewhere else)

 

However the 1996 Bulldog Task force decided (seemingly in all of their first 10 minutes in power) to both get rid of the Footscray name and move the club out of the ground, so there was no point I guess getting too worried what the name of the ground we train at is known as. McHale Stadium replaced Victoria Park- do any Eastern Magpies fans really care about that,(be it pro or against) especially as they don't even train there any more!

 

There is a lot to names though- Nottingham Forest sounds grouse but where they play doesn't- The City Ground. How mundane is that. Middlesbrough used to play at Ayresome Park, then they built another ground and they call it the Riverside. Ayresome Park sounds romantic, the riverside is a dime a dozen. Well at least they built another ground and didn't move in with another club. Hull City used to play at Boothberry Park, then they moved to a new ground. They called it after a sponsors name. The English Cricket Grounds are mostly excellent with 1 blatant exception. Edgbaston, Headingley, Old Trafford, Trent Bridge are great especially the first two. Lords, like the MCG has history with it, however The Oval sounds awful- it is traditionally the Kennington Oval.They should use the word Kennington more. That joke from Fawlty Towers where the Major says- " I took my wife to see India once..... at the Oval, might have been even better if he said Headingley, Edgbaston or... Kennington? It wouldn't be for Kennington though as hardly anyone would know that this is the real name of the ground where Bradman played his last test. 

[Rodc]

I always thought that Punt Road had a good ring to it for a footy ground, although I believe historically it was named because of it's proximity to the Yarra and the punts that used to sail on it.  But I thought "punt" was appropriate.  Watching footy replays when I was a kid and first hearing that somebody was "kicking to the Punt Road end" always seemed to sound good.  At the same time I used to wonder what people who weren't "footy savvy" thought if they tuned into a Channel Seven replay to hear Michael Williamson say, "In this last quarter Footscray are kicking to the Richmond end and Richmond are kicking to the new stand end."  I think he referred to the Western Stand, as it was first called before it became the Ponsford Stand, as the "new stand end" for about five years after it was built.  

I like Arden Street as a name, but I have a recollection that for some years it may have been called "The Gasometer Oval".  By the way I have never heard of a gasometer any where else except for the one that used to be beside North's ground.

I think Victoria park and Princes park have too much of an English Royal type of ring to them.  Kardinia Park does sound good and I like the sound of "Glenferrie."  I also didn't realise that Footscray played so few games at the "Whitten Oval."  Like your comments about the English Grounds but why is "Lords" called "Lords?"

[Caveman]

I have some memory that Lords is actually named after someone who was named Lord- well his surname was. Will have to check that out. With Punt Road it has become linked to Richmond so it is higher up the chain for me than a few others.

The Gasometer Oval is I think an unofficial nickname, but so are Princes Park & Windy Hill. The latter was legally known as the Essendon Recreation Reserve and Princes Park was the North Carlton Oval, or something similar, this is mentioned in former President John Elliott's autobiography. He discussed this when talking about how they changed the name of Princes Park to Optus Oval. This created a furore at the time, I recall Tim Lane on 3LO threatening to refuse to use the term Optus Oval at the time. Eventually it become second nature, Princes Park has seemingly become a redundant phrase, like Telecom and Spencer Street Station. As you could probably predict I refuse to call it SC, I reckon it is ludicrous, I still say Spencer Street, SC is meaningless, is the actual Southern Cross easier to see from there rather than anywhere else on this continent?!

Changing the name of the Western Stand to the Ponsford Stand was though in my view a good idea. Once again directions are so bland for names, the Ponsford means something. The new stand- opened for the 1967 Grand Final & came down not long after the 2002 Grand Final. Geelong is so similar they began constructing the Reg Hickey Stand in 1978 & it lasted for less than 35 years. Yet they never called it the new stand did they?

Mike Williamson he had a great voice for commentary, pity he left too early. Grounds with great names for ends adds to the venue, Lillee is coming in to bowl from the Kirkstall Lane End, Bob Willis is thundering in from the Warwick Road End, gave Headingley & Old Trafford more appeal, the Vulture Street end is unique to the Gabba or the Randwick end in Sydney. Aston Villa's ground Villa Park is too similar to the name of the club, but one of their ends- The Holte End sounds brilliant- and "Crystal Palace attacking the Holte End in this 2nd half" that was against Liverpool in the F..A. Cup Semi Final of 1990 as called by legendary commentator John Motson, a year earlier he was at the Hillsborough Semi Final. That was a good name but now it has become linked to that tragedy. Anyway the Holte End is this massive embankment behind the goals at one end, that went back for miles, Hillsborough have a similar one yet the Liverpool fans were up the other end that day, the smaller more cramped one where the disaster happened, the Nottingham Forest fans were up the big end.
Probably the best "end" by word association we had here was the Robert Heatley Stand end at Princes Park- not for the size of it, just the name which was always linked with Carlton. I wish Geelong would take the seats away from their " new stand" on the bottom deck so it would become like the Robert Heatley Stand end. They could do it, the atmosphere there would be brilliant as what would be the standing room area would go back for a fair way.

I never liked it being called the Geelong Road end, though it was technically correct as that is what it was. Just didn't like having another teams name in it! The Barkly Street end was fine though, totally synonymous with the Footscray Football ground. Huddersfield Town in England used to play at Leeds Road so they had the same problem to us, though worse for them as it was the name of the ground and not just an end.

[Rodc]

Some fascinating stuff there, Caveman.  In regard to your comments about the English Premier League grounds, have you been to some of them?  Your descriptions sound like you may have. 

Bit of trivia about Mike Williamson.  If you listen to his commentaries of those old Grand Finals you will hear almost every year he would predict a draw.  Closest he got was St.Kilda's one point win in '66.  The last Grand Final he called was in 1976.  Guess what happened in '77?  

[Caveman]

Not been to any of them- maybe later next year or possibly April, May of 2016?

 

 Anyway back to Mike Williamson, that is a classic what you put there about drawn Grand Finals and how he missed out on calling the 1977 draw. 

 

Some of his best work in Grand Finals is not well known as it occurred outside of the last quarter or in Grand Finals that don't rate highly- be it rightly or wrongly.

 

 

Yet one I reckon one Grand Final that is hugely underrated is 1969- Carlton v Richmond. It was still in the balance with 10 minutes to go and Mike makes some ripper comments in that match. He gives an editorial about the (then) male fashion- long hair and calling the bloke who ended up coaching Western- (the Sydney one)  "Sideburns Sheedy" Move along 7 years to 1976 and they all look like that!

 

In the first half of 1970 Mike is imploring someone from the MCC to go on the ground with a rake to clear and clean up the plethora of streamers that are littering the field. In that same 1970 Grand Final he mentions how one player "had some bad luck during the week- his father died". 

 

He left that role too early- I think he may have had a falling out with Ron Casey at the time? Pity really because he was an excellent caller, superb clear voice.

[Caveman]

Another 8 videos have been added to FOOTSCRAY GAMES in the last 90 mins. Good viewing everyone, some great stuff amongst it all.

[Rodc]

Great work Caveman.  I'm sure I'm like many others who appreciates your efforts.  I don't think there are too many other, (if any), AFL devoted websites that has put as much video history on them, what with your old games and the player highlights and players kicking goals. A couple of those games I went to, so it is great to relive them all these years later.  Great Footscray highlights!! 

[Caveman]

Thanks Rod, would love to put that game you went to - 

 

1976: Round 22 of 22, Carlton v Footscray game up one day. Though sadly I think it might be a bridge too far.

 

Would love the reverse fixture even more-

 

1976: Round 11 of 22, Footscray v Carlton

[Caveman]

Quite a few more videos were added over this weekend. We have now gone from 5 pages on FOOTSCRAY GAMES to 8 pages.

 

One of which is 20 odd minutes from 46 years ago -

 

1968: Round 8, Footscray v South Melbourne from home

 

Teddy Whitten is out there as captain with Charlie Sutton in his 2nd year of his 2nd stint as coach. Bobby Skilton is playing for South Melbourne amongst other bloods idols like Peter Bedford and John Sudholz.

 

Fred Cook is playing in this game for Footscray before he made his name in "The Association" as a Port Melbourne living legend.

[Caveman]

More videos were added to the Footscray Games section of Footscray Tube this morning.

Two of the games from the 7 that were introduced were-

1988: Round 16, North Melbourne v Footscray
1989: Round 14, Footscray v Collingwood

There is a fair bit of action in both, though one game does have ads in it.

Plenty more to come!