14 replies to this topic

[Lisbon]

Here's two pieces of good news from Europe.

1- As already mentioned in this forum, some years ago Wimbledon FC was bought and moved to Milton Keynes, lock, stock and barrel, which lead a group of loyal WFC fans to form a new club, AFC Wimbledon, and enter it in an amateur league. Now, after negotiations involving the English Football Supporters Association and Merton Borough Council (the Local Authority for the Wimbledon area), the Milton Keynes mob has handed over 25 boxes worth of trophies, memorabilia and mementoes (including a replica of the 1988 FA Cup, won by Wimbledon, and the ball used for the club's very first 4th Division match after having been elected to the League in 1977) to Merton Borough Council.

Mr. Winkelman, the chairman of Milton Keynes Dons FC, said that he now recognised that the trophies, etc., belonged in Merton and to the people of Merton and should remain there, accepting that AFC Wimbledon and the MK club had equal claims to Wimbledon's heritage. The thing is, he previously used to attack AFC fiercely, even accusing them of being responsible for Wimbledon's demise (which earned him no friends). What made him change his mind? It appears that as a result of the negotiations with the Football Supporters Federation and Merton Borough Council the MK supporters group was finally granted membership of the Supporters Federation, ending their status as outcasts, and the Wimbledon Independent Supporters Association (the people who created AFC Wimbledon) agreed to end their call for boycotts of games at MK, a call that was heeded by fans of many clubs, which hurt MK financially. My point is, the fans refusal to be deprived of what was rightfully theirs and their standing their ground - cede nullis! - did pay off, and my hat is off to them.

2- Dynamo Dresden of Germany got their name back. In 1990 Dynamo's name was changed from SG Dynamo Dresden (SG means Sporting Community) to 1.FC Dynamo Dresden (1.FC means First Football Club). At the time a lot of East German clubs underwent name changes, some restoring ancient names they had been stripped of by the East German regime, others shedding names like "Activist" or "Chemistry" or "Forwards", which were considered too politically charged. Dynamo was founded in 1953 and had no "old name" to return to. The club had been treated very roughly in the GDR days, as their first ever decent team was ordered by the Ministry of State Security to move to Berlin and become Dynamo Berlin, leaving behind the reserves to form a "rump" Dresden, forced to start over several divisions below, but they did not shed the tipically East Bloc "Dynamo" in their name. However, someone decided that SG wouldn't do and 1.FC was the thing.

This arbitrary and pointless change annoyed the fans, who started the "back to SGD" campaign. Their work paid off and a General Meeting of the club was convened in order to discuss the matter - it finished at about 1.30 am and the fans were victorious (by a mere 14 votes, but still victorious) - it was decided that the SG Dynamo Dresden name would be reinstated as of July 1, 2007. Writing about this decision, a fan claimed that "it felt great to realise that club democracy can be still be experienced in Dresden and that fans may still reach their goals, if they keep on fighting against adverse circumstances" - even if it takes 17 years.

On the evening of June 30 Dresden supporters went to the club's ground and at midnight held bengal fires aloft, arranged in such a way as to form the letters "SGD". Anyone for midnight fire-works at Whitten Oval?

[/i]

[DMcG]

Thats great news!!!

I've been morbidly follwing Red Bull Salzburg since reading the history and I get angrier the more I read.

That's amazing news!

By the way, noticed yesterday that Sporting Lisbon have changed their name to Sporting Portugal, can you enlighten me as to why that's happened??

Glad some great news is filtering through, especialy after some depressing Champions League results.

[Lisbon]

Sporting Lisbon did not change its name. The club's name has always been Sporting Clube de Portugal (Sporting Club of Portugal) and we are only known as Sporting Lisbon outside of Portugal. This doesn't bother me much, as it's only done abroad, just to help people know where we are from and we Portuguese do it as well when talking about foreign clubs that are not named after a city (we usually say Arsenal London or Juventus Turin or Lazio Rome). Sporting's board are now insisting that the club be known internationally as Sporting Portugal and someone must have overdone it because I was at Wednesday's Champions League match and "SC Portugal" appeared on the scoreboard. In Portugal we are known simply as Sporting.
There are lots of clubs named Sporting Clube of ... in Portugal, most of them were founded by Sporting supporters and are symbolically "affilliated" to the Lisbon club. Portuguese emigrants have founded "Sportings" (and "Portos" and "Benficas") all over the world (affilliated club nr. 134 is the Western Australia Portuguese Sporting Soccer Club from Davies Park, WA). Likewise, there are "official" Sporting supporters' social clubs almost everywhere (including Petersham, NSW). It's a bit like the Australian Football clubs in Europe and America - they're usually named after an AFL club.

[Lisbon]

Red Bull Salzburg were top of the Austrian League and played at home against Rapid Vienna. They lost 0-7 and Rapid are the new leaders. Well done the boys in green!

[Caveman]

I recall Rapid Vienna contesting the 1985 European Cup Winners Cup Final, losing to Everton.

I don't understand why they got rid of the Cup Winners Cup? It was a good competition, just like the original Champions Cup was. The Champions League now is a joke- Liverpool winners in 2005 when not champions of England, Manchester United ditto for 1999 when not reigning Champions of England.

[Lisbon]

I don't understand it either! After all, it's the only European competition Sporting have ever won, back in 1964, including such highlights as a 16-1 thrashing of Apoel Nicosia of Cyprus (still an European competition record), a miraculous comeback against Manchester United (featuring Law, Charlton, Best, etc.), with Sporting winning the second leg 5-0 after losing 4-1 at Old Trafford, and replays (no away goals rule and no penalty shoot-outs at the time) against Lyon, Atalanta and MTK Budapest (in the final).

The "champions" league should really become the "Eurocup - 1st division" and the UEFA cup the "Eurocup - 2nd division" or something like that, because that's what they really are. Just think- if Leverkusen had won that final against Real Madrid, they would have become champions of Europe without ever having won a German League title.

[Caveman]

Yes what they had in the not too distant past was a good scheme. They changed it for money which has made the European Champions Cup a pseudo Champions and Runners-up Cup.

The three different Cup competitions worked nearly perfectly. Why couldn't they have just left it as it bleeding well was!

[Lisbon]

The name change fever is still sweeping Europe and England in particular. Leigh RMI (Railway Mechanics Institute), a small English club, was bought by a bloke who decided that a big change was in order and introduced a new badge (suspiciously similar to the Xbox logo), changed the shirts from all white to red and white stripes and changed the club’s name to Leigh Genesis. Apparently he had the first book of the Bible in mind, claiming the club was experiencing a new beginning. This leaves open the mouth-watering possibility of further name changes in a similar vein (Leigh Exodus, Leigh Deuteronomy, Leigh Psalms, Leigh Acts of the Apostles, until the eventual Apocalyptic end).

Farsley Celtic are also contemplating changing their name to Leeds City, because apparently no one knows where Farsley is. They should remember the German club Meiderich SV, whose fans were taunted by their rivals because no one knew that suburb. After coming 2nd in the first ever Bundesliga season, they started singing “everyone knows where Meiderich is, everyone knows where Meiderich wins”. Unfortunately, Meiderich SV was later persuaded to adopt the name of the city that Meiderich belongs to and the club is now known as Meiderich SV (MSV) Duisburg.

Ebbsfleet United, the club that is owned by some 50.000 people who signed up via the internet and supposedly run it, also changed its name, in this case before last season (2007/8). It used to be called Gravesend & Northfleet, because it was the result of the merger of two clubs (Gravesend FC and Northfleet FC, obviously). Apparently Ebbsfleet is the name of a station in the Channel Tunnel Railway and the club thought that name enjoyed greater notoriety. Gone are the days when it was clubs that had public transportation stations named after them (Arsenal underground station).

Personally, I feel sad that one of Englands glorious “&” teams has changed its name. Gravesend & Northfleet was a great name, with a sort of Victorian era ring to it, leaving you half expecting that their games would be watched by chimney sweeps, women named Rosamund and Genevieve and Indian Army colonels on half pay, who would shout things like “good show! That’ll teach the blighter!” or accuse the referee of being a blackguard and a mountebank and that on going to work on Mondays would tell their co-workers “I say, I saw a cracker of a game last Saturday”.

Fortunately there are still some good “&” names left, like Brighton & Hove Albion (a great name if ever there was one), Dagenham & Redbridge and the splendid Havant & Waterlooville.

Britain has some of the greatest club names in the world. Where else are there clubs named after a former Queen (Crewe Alexandra), something Scottish, when all things Scottish were in fashion (Plymouth Argyle), a renaissance era nobleman used by Shakespeare as a character in one of is plays (Tottenham Hotspur) or simply a day of the week (Sheffield Wednesday)? Not to mention the great Scottish names like Queen of the South, Partick Thistle, Heart of Midlothian, etc. If the tradition-bound Brits start changing names, what hope is there for the rest of us?

[Caveman]

That was magnificent Lisbon.

As for the Leigh Genesis saga, maybe he is also a big Phil Collins fan? Phil Collins probably needs a few bob as he is going through another costly divorce with this 3rd wife- with the emhasis on COSTLY. Or this Leigh business will end up as Leigh Revelation.

As you say some of these British teams have quaint names. I always liked what Middlesbrough used to call home before moving to their brand new Riverside Stadium- Ayresome Park. It always conjured thoughts of a Bronte Sisters or Jane Austen epic.

Sheffield Wednesday have probably got it over Sheffield United in Sheffield the actual city of. This is because Wednesday is totally connected to them and them only whereas there are many many United's. Yet that is one of the biggest rivalries in England.

As for tube stations- Arsenal's nearest tube station (this was at Highbury before they moved to the Emirates Stadium)was Gillespie Road. This was changed in the thirties to Arsenal at the request of their legendary manager of the day Herbert Chapman.

Tottenham Hotspur's nearest tube station is- correct me if I am wrong- Seven Sisters? I still like that though, whilst unusual it is definitely distinctive.

Crewe Alexandra is a beauty and Dagenham and Redbridge is grouse as well.

I like how they put importance on 'ends' which in a way become almost stand alone entities within the stadium- the Holte End, the Stretford End, the Gallowgate End for Aston Villa, Manchester United and Newcastle United.

However as you say, when the Brits are mucking around with tradition- the world is starting to fall apart

[Lisbon]

The tube station nearest to Tottenham's ground is indeed Seven Sisters. You're right about the ends. The ones you mentioned and others like the North Bank (Arsenal), the Kippax (Man City), the Kop (Liverpool, Sheff Wednesday), the Shed (Chelsea), etc. were legendary in their own right. Today most of them live only in the fans' memories (done away with due to stadium renovations and the building of new grounds in the post Taylor Report era, when terraces with standing room only were deemed unsafe), but those who watched games in them were usually proud of it and somehow felt part of a "family".

By the way, Mr. Smorgon must have a Danish cousin. I knew that Danish soccer club Farum had changed it's name to Nordsjaelland, but it was only a few days ago, when I was reading an UEFA Cup guide, that I found out that Farum is the name of the town the team play in (near Copenhagen) and that the name was changed to Nordsjaelland because that's the region Farum belongs to and the board wanted to attract support from all over the region. Sounds familiar?

[Caveman]

Well at least- if there was any support for this move (and I am not taking sides here) this new name of the Danish club is an actual region. As opposed to our situation where Western is a direction but NOT a region. There is no place called Western as I continually argue- it is a direction. Western is a nothing- for a 'region' no one knows where it starts and no one can say where it ends. What are its boundaries?

It was very appropriate that you mentioned the KOP for both Liverpool and Sheffield Wednesday. Very apt with the Taylor Report as well, because the Hillsborough Disaster at Sheffield Wednesday's ground was the reason for the Taylor Report.

There was a movement a few years ago amongst some Sheffield Wednesday fans to actually change the name of the ground from Hillsborough to Owlerton. I understand Owlerton is the suburb that Hillsborough is situated in. This idea was to escape the constant linking of Hillsborough the ground with THE HILLSBOROUGH DISASTER.

Appears that this has not gained any serious ground though.

[Lisbon]

Yes, the Danish name makes more sense. Also, it may be used on it's own, unlike "Western".

Sheffield Wednesday's ground is indeed in Owlertown, that's why their nickname is the Owls. I don't know if they want to stop calling their ground Hillsborough, but that's a change I would understand. Hillsborough is by-word for disaster. You should read the Taylor report. Crap planning and crap police cost 96 people their lives. It was obvious from the start that there would be a huge "crush" just before kick-off yet nothing was made to prevent it. Lord Taylor did the maths on the number of turnstiles/ number of fans and proved that any moron could realise that there weren't enough turnstiles. I don't know how things were in Australia in the old days, but around here we were pretty much treated like cattle. I felt myself barely able to breathe on a few occasions attending matches in Lisbon and Hillsborough always came to my mind then.

[Caveman]

Yes I could understand if they did decide to change the name of the ground from Hillsborough to Owlerton - for that association by name reason. Changing it to say Walmart Stadium, Jaguar Fields or the like is a big no no with me- Geelong do it here, they have been Shell Stadium, Baytec Stadium, Skilled Stadium but to me they have always (well since 1941 when they moved there from Corio Oval) and will always be Kardinia Park.

However if any club had a reason to change their name of their ground then Sheffield Wednesday have that appropriate situation. What 's more is that they already have as Owlerton, a ready made replacement for the name Hillsborough. It (Owlerton) sounds miles better than the City Ground, The Community Stadium etc etc.

I have seen footage of highlights of old F. A. Cup Semi Finals before 1989 and they must have had some near potential tragedies then. It is amazing now when you look at the old clips- the 1971 Arsenal v Stoke City Semi Final were Peter Storey of Arsenal converted an injury time penalty against Gordon Banks which prevented Stoke from going into the final. Just look at the crowd behing Gordon Banks- they were Stoke City fans it was their end- all of them demoralised ( John Motson's exact words) and all packed in like potatoes. Imagine if Gordon Banks had of saved it- there would have been a massive surge and ultimately a crush. Then again they didn't have fences at Hillsborough in 1971 though.

Then there were other like Manchester United v Derby County in 1976 and just watch the crowd after Gordon Hill scores for Manchester from a free kick. How anyone could breathe in that area still mystifies me.

I read a story from a Tottenham Hotspur supporter who claims that they nearly faced a similar disaster at Hillsborough in 1981 at their F.A.Cup Semi Final with Wolverhampton Wanderers. There was evidently a crush there in the same position but it was contained and a tragedy was averted.

That end at Sheffield Wednesday's ground is the Leppings Lane end- it is perhaps worth considering and maybe wondering why it never became known as the 'Leppings Lane Disaster' rather than the 'Hillsborough Disaster" as we all know it since 1989. Semantics I guess- but no one was killed up the other end where the Nottingham Forest fans were.

[Lisbon]

Red Bull are at it again. They had been trying to buy a German club for a while, and had set their sights on FC Sachsen (Saxony) Leipzig. This club is the latest incarnation of the fabled BSG Chemie (Chemistry) Leipzig, traditionally one of the best supported teams in the “bad old days” of the GDR. Leipzig soccer history is colourful, to say the least, and the city’s clubs have been plagued by a seemingly unending series of name changes, mergers and bankruptcies.

Actually, this is the case with basically every former GDR club – as every German club had to be registered with the Nazi sports federation during the Hitler years, the Soviet Zone administration decided to disband them all on the grounds that they were Nazi organizations. New clubs were founded in their stead, connected to their predecessors more by geography – they represented the same communities – than by anything else. It is therefore that, in Leipzig, Sachsen claim to be the successors of the pre-WWII TuRa 1899 club, because based in the Leutszch part of town (like TuRa 1899), and Lokomotive view themselves as heirs to the old VfB Leipzig, winners of the first ever German title back in 1903, because based in the Probstheida district of Leipzig (like VfB). Lokomotive (aka 1. FC Lok) even reverted to the VfB name and colours after the fall of the Berlin Wall, only to reassume the Lokomotive tag when VfB became insolvent and were expelled from the League. Apart from that, the GDR soccer authorities were always relocating, re-naming and merging clubs, with a measure of stability only being reached in 1966, the year of the last big GDR League makeover.

The green and whites of Sachsen resisted the Red Bull onslaught and managed to maintain their identity. The “gummy bear juice” manufacturers didn’t give up, however, and ended up buying little SSV Markranstädt, a team based in the vicinity of Leipzig. They immediately changed the club colours to red and white and tried to rename it “Red Bull Leipzig”. German League rules prevent clubs being named after sponsors, though, so they had to settle for “RB Leipzig”, “RB” standing (officially) for “RasenBallsport”, which means “sport played with a ball on grass”. Red Bull also bought the naming rights to Leipzig’s Zentralstadium and moved “RB” to that ground, which they now share with Lokomotive and Sachsen. All three clubs are currently in the “Oberliga NOFV-Süd”, one of the regional leagues that make up the 5th tier of German football. RB lead the league with 22 points (7 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat), Sachsen are in 8th place with 14, Lokomotive are 10th with 11 points and one game in hand.

Fan reaction to RB’s takeover has been very negative, with criticism of the “plastic club” being the norm. SSV Markranstädt wasn’t particularly well supported and RB Leipzig is apparently even less popular. Some fans have expressed the wish that, even with Red Bull’s money, RB are unable to reach the first level of German football and “hit a brick wall” somewhere around the 2nd or 3rd division. Red Bull now have three teams, one in Salzburg, one in New York and one in Leipzig. In each case they changed both club name (from SV Austria Salzburg to Red Bull Salzburg, from New York MetroStars to New York Red Bulls and from SSV Markranstädt to RB Leipzig) and club colours (to white shirts and red shorts). One wonders where they’ll strike next. Let the “McDonaldization” of the “world game” proceed…

Let’s hope they stay out of the AFL, lest we run the risk of ending up barracking for the Western Red Bulls/ Footscrayfootballclubtradingasthewesternredbulls.

[Caveman]

That is quite a weird history that Beethoven's countrymen have in their football history.

It is maybe a wonder that Middlesbrough in England did become the ICI Boro. Or Aberdeen in Scotland the North Sea Oil Dons- they could have the initials AFC on the back of their guernsey with an oil rig on the front like we do with the yawning cat.